2020-01-18欧卡访谈，何老师访谈

2020-01-18欧卡访谈，何老师访谈 2020-01-18欧卡访谈，何老师访谈

阿宏：欧卡对于你是什么样的机缘呢？

何平:当时带领我们其实就是欧卡图来编故事，我觉得这是一种通过视觉和心理学里边的墨迹测试一样的方式去让你说出你的潜意识，当中我会有一些东西，而是一种我觉得对我现在是来讲是一个教学方式的辅助，同时也是一个一种去训练自己引导，潜意识沟通的一种很好的工具。我跟我老婆玩过一次，感觉就是挺有意思的，因为他能把一些你没说出来的东西帮你说出来。

阿宏：对，我当时学了之后，我当天晚上我就和我爸爸玩了一个时光之旅是吧？我觉得太厉害了，因为平时跟我爸聊一些感性的东西，其实你会感觉有点“干”是吧？很“干”对吧？时光之旅，后来我觉得太适合跟老老年人在一起玩这个游戏。因为他是在回溯这一个人的过去，从小孩到读书，到工作，到中年，一直到老年的追溯的故事，在故事中发掘一生的意义。

何平：欧卡目前有哪些流派呢？

阿宏：比如说欧卡教练，台湾的黄乔伊老师，你给在百度上搜，其实我还搜了一下，玩这个东西的一些流派，其实还挺多的，还有做欧卡疗愈。疗愈这个东西我一直觉得当然我就后来问了一个，我以前一个同学，专门做心理咨询。她说疗愈这个东西，你觉得真实吗？对于特别深信这一类的疗愈的同学来说，都是可能让你非常的感动，但是她也给我说的一个东西，人只要活着就有伤害就有伤痕，因为你从小到大也会遇到很多什么痛苦，别人对你的冷漠这样的一个东西，但是同时你要相信一个东西，就是人自身有一个强大的自我修复能力，意思是需要让你的伤口在公开的地方暴露出来。它会自我治愈。我觉得有的时候你没有必要刻意去疗愈别人。心灵是脆弱的，如果如果万一遇到一些水平不够高的老师，就很难到达相应的效果。

何平：聊聊欧卡自我探索的一些故事吗？

阿宏：我想学生好好学习，好好激发学习兴趣，这也是很多老师共同的问题，有时候觉得很你越想去付出越多，但是其实你获得多少认同越少，学生他可能就这样说，你为什么要盯着我，全班这么多学生，对不对！在我自己看牌分析的时候，我意识到一个问题，我为什么这要这么纠结的纠正别人呢？

通过一张金色头发的儿童卡引导，唤醒了我在读书的时候有一段经历，那个经历是是我在那个时候化学成绩特别差，我记得我的化学老师，他姓谢，叫谢老师。然后他的很多教育方法特别好，每次上课都会让大家唱一段口诀，就是这样一个充满着快乐的老师，让我从一个不及格的差生到及格，然后到全班第一，再排到全年级化学成绩第一，让我突然间有一种感觉，你知道可能你成绩也不是特别好，但是有个人突然间看到你的亮点，打通你的亮点，能够让你觉得你在整个学校（当时的整个世界而言）你都是前三名。你知道学习是需要一个很强大的动力，然后一下子就像今年罗胖的跨年演讲说的，人点亮人。我觉得这个词在教育行业用的太好了，让我就像一个运载火箭一样，你首先有一个头特别拔尖，然后剩下的其他学科就带会带着走，让你觉得学习像是特别肯定有劲！

后来让我觉得这是一种方式对待学生的方式，以及我为什么选择老师这个行业，我特别感恩。在那个时刻的话，我突然有被点亮。点亮这个事儿它是非常有技巧性的事，后来我觉察到一个东西，我不一定非得要从学科上去点，对不对？其实要让一个人得到自己的亮点。通过这个亮点再进行不断提高突破。

包括跟何老师选择职业培训师这个行业，你肯定有些背后的一些东西，实际上真的你平时你真的没意识到，比如说你可能刚开始就觉得收入还可以，然后又比较光鲜，对不对？这其实都是表面的原因。你内在一定有个过去的亮点激励着你持续走向这个方向。

何平：为何欧卡有这样深刻的内在觉察的链接呢？

阿宏：我感觉是这样的，首先你要和图卡产生一个链接，然后图卡然后要和你大脑的记忆深处的一个触电要产生一个链接，就像一个钩子一样勾出内在的故事，因为自我探索是一个困难的事情，比如我自己长什么样子，我怎么知道？我需要一个镜子才知道。那天我突然发现OH卡就是这样一个镜子.通过牌其实我们看到的是自己。这样就会站在上帝视角来看自己的内在。欧卡的话它用了一种具象化的一些图案，他会有一种隔山打牛、旁敲侧击的方式，它会比较轻松的去带动话题。

阿宏：我发现教练发问是一个很难复制的过程，因为教练这个事儿，我真的觉得是一个很难去学习。工具可以学，方法也可以学。但是这种对本质提问的洞察力，这是很难得，而且每个大师他的风格又不一样，对吧？所以说我觉得可能对我来说，我需要一个切入口。比如就像你学佛和学禅，一般意义的禅就是佛教的简化的本土版本，菩提老祖最开始从南北朝开始，佛家的经典著作的书太多了，《阿含经》《杂阿含经》《涅盘经》《金刚经》《心经》《般若经》《法华经》《华严经》《楞严经》《楞伽经》《圆觉经》《维摩诘经》《坛经》《无量寿经》《阿弥陀经》《观无量寿经》《药师经》《观音经》《解深密经》《大般涅盘经》《四十二章经》。一箩一箩的，你去学，又觉得很难入手。但是禅的经典《六祖坛经》它大部分是故事，我们很容易入门。

何平：那你是怎么接触这些书籍呢？

阿宏：无意之间看到一本漫画蔡志忠的漫画。漫画也是个去接触这样比较深奥的这些理论的一种方式，他写了一系列的中国名著漫画的东西，我很想和人推荐这套绝版的系列漫画咯。当然契机这个也很重要，而且这个东西不是说别人告诉你要去怎么学，可能真的有的时候看书，就因为有人说了一句话，我觉得特别有意思，于是就购买阅读。就是说和一本书能够让我看进去的话，看机缘。我觉得特别有意思的是这样，我们叫做觉察，我觉察你要知道自己是什么样子的，然后会用什么样的方式去决策，就像当然可能会有一些工具，比如像思维导图。我还是听觉型得的。还是视觉型的。或者你们测评你是哪种类型学习？视觉、听觉。可以测一下，可以。

阿宏：之前你玩过哪些欧卡游戏呢？

何平：第一个就是故事接龙，就是每个人抽张牌，然后编故事它接下去，然后还有一个游戏是我当时淘宝上买的，他还送了一本书，里边说，一张牌能够一张牌能够看出它正面和反面的点。对他的比如这样一张牌，对欧卡它是一个训练你的中性的人。对事情不评判。

阿宏：对，我们来看这张牌，比如说你看第一眼的感觉是什么？好像是家暴对不对？换一个人去选，但也有可能在壁咚！对吧？尽可能不评判。如果大家都喜欢不根据实际情况评判，尤其是现在网络暴力，慢慢这样就形成这样的。当然这个游戏还是比较浅。

未完待续

Ah Hong: What kind of chance does Oka have for you?

Ho PingI thought it was a way of telling your subconscious through inking tests in vision and psychology，I'll have something in it, but it's something that I think is a teaching aid to me now, and it's also a great tool for training myself to guide and communicate subconsciously. I played with my wife once, and it was fun, because he was able to tell you something you didn't say.

Ah Hong:Yeah, after I did, I was with my dad the same nightHad a time tripRight? I think it's too goodIt'sBecauseTalk to my dad about something emotionalActually, you willIt's kind of "Dry”Right? Very“Dry”Right? TimeA journey,Then I thought it was too good to be with older peoplePlay the game.Because he's looking back at this guy's past,From children to reading, to work, to middle age, all the way back to the old story, in the story to explore the meaning of life.

Ho Ping：What schools are there in Occa?

Ah HongFor example, Coach Oka, Mr. Choy Wong of Taiwan,You to search on Baidu, in fact, I also search, play with this thing some schools, in fact, quite a lot,And OccaHeal. Healing this thing I always felt certainly I later asked a, I used to a classmate, specializing in psychological counseling.SheSay healing this thing,YouFeel real?ForParticularly convinced thatHealingStudents, you may be very moved,But she alsoOne of the things，As long as people live, there are injuries, because you will also encounter a lot of pain from childhood, other people's indifference to you such a thing, butAt the same timeYou have to believe that one thing is that one has a strongSelfRepairCapacity,It means we need toYour woundInPublic exposure。It willSelfCure. I don't think sometimes you needDeliberatelyTo heal others.The mind is fragile,What if there's somethingIf the teacher is not high enough, it is difficult to achieve the corresponding effect.

He Ping: Do you talk about some of Occa's self-exploration?

Ah Hong：I thinkStudents study hard，Stimulate interest in learningThis is also a common problem for many teachersSometimesThe more you want to give, the more you getThe less identity, the less studentHe might just say, why are you staring at me，So many students in the class, right?When I read my own card analysis,I'm aware of the question whySo tangledCorrectionOther people？

Guided by a golden-haired children's card, awakenedWhen I was reading, I had an experience where I was at that timeChemistryBad grades, I rememberMy chemistry teacher,His name is Xie. His name is Xie. And then a lot of his education was really good,Every class will let everyone sing a formula, is such a happy teacher,Let me start with aPassed poor studentsTo pass, then to the classFirst，AgainClasses in ChemistryFirst,Let me suddenly have a feeling, you know maybe your grades are not particularly good,But there's someoneSuddenlySee your bright spots, open your bright spotscan make you feel like you'reThe whole school (the whole world at the time)You're top three. You know it takes a lot of motivation to learn, and then all of a suddenYearLuoFat New Year SpeechSaid::，Light a man.I think the wordIn the education sectorIt's so good, it makes me like a launch vehicle, youFirst of allThere is a very top-notch head, and then the rest of the other subjects will take you with you, making you feel like learning is particularly certainStrong!

Then it made me thinkIt's a kind ofTreat students in a wayThe way，andWhy did I choose a teacherThisindustry, I am particularly grateful. At that moment, I suddenly hadLighted up.Light upIt was a very technical thing, and then I noticed something that I didn't have to do with the subject, did I? Actually let a person getMy own highlights。Through this bright spot to carry on the continuous improvement breakthrough.

Including choosingCareerThe trainer industry, you must have something behind it, you really don't usually realize that, for example, you may feel that the income is OK at the beginning, and then compareBrightIs it right? It's all superficialReasons。You must have a past bright spot inside that inspires you to keep moving in that direction.

He Ping: Why does Oka have such a deep link of inner awareness?

Ah Hong:I feel like this,First you have to talkChartCard generates aLinks, and thenChartCard and then go deep into the memory of your brainAn electric shockTo generate a linkLike a hook to the inner storyBecauseSelf-exploration is a difficult thing，For exampleMyselfWhat does it look likeLook, how do I know？I need a mirror to know.That day I suddenly found outOHCard is such a mirror。Through the cards we actually see ourselves. This will stand in God's view of the inner self. EuropeCard's words it uses a kind of figurative some pattern, he will have a way to beat cattle, side by side, it will be easier to drive the topic.

Ah Hong:I found it difficult for the coach to ask questions,Because of the coach thing, I really find it difficult to learn. ToolsCan learnmethods can also be learned. But that's rightEssential questionsThe insight,It's rareAnd every master has a different style, right? So I thought it might be, for me,I need an entry point. For exampleJust like you learn BuddhismZen，General meaningZen isBuddhistSimplifiedLocal versionThe old Bodhi ancestors first began in the Southern and Northern DynastiesStartBuddhaThe classics of homeToo many books,Aham's sutra "miscellaneous ahan's sutra" nirvana sutra "nirvana sutra "," the heart sutra "," prajna sutra "," fahua sutra "," huayan sutra "," rangama sutra "," round sense sutra "," vimo sutra "," unlimited life sutra "," amita sutra "," unlimited life sutra "," the pharmacist's sutra "," guanyin sutra "," deep secret scripture ","," four chapters of the nirvana sutra ".A lot of, you go to school, you feel veryHard to get started.But ZenThe classicSix ancestral scriptures》ItMostlyIt's a story,We're easy to get started.

He Ping: So how do you get into these books?

Ah Hong:accidentally saw a cartoon of Cai Zhizhong. The cartoon is also a touch with these more esoteric theoriesOne wayHe wrote a series ofChinese classicsThings, I'd love to recommendThis out-of-print series of comics. Of courseThis opportunityAlsoIt's important, and it doesn't mean people tell you how to learn, maybe sometimes,BecauseSomeone said a word, I thought it was very interesting,So buy reading.That's to say, and a book that allows me to read it, if I can read it. What I find particularly interesting is that we call it awareness, that I perceive that you need to know what you're like, and then how you're going to make your decisions, as if there might be tools, like, likeMind Map。I'm still hearingTypeGot it.Or visual.Or do you rate what type of learning you are? Vision, hearing. Can be measured, OK.

Ah Hong: What Occa games have you played before?

Ho Ping:No.IOne is the story of the dragon，Everyone draws a card, then makes a story, and then there's another oneGameI bought it on taobao at that time. He also sent a book, which said that a card can see the point of its front and back.。Yeah, his, like, a card, yeahOkaIt's a trainingNeutralThe people. YesThingsNo judgment。

Ah Hong:Yes,Let's goLook at thisBrandLet's say, what's your first look at this? It's like domestic violence, right?Another personTo choose, but it's also possibleThe wall！Right?Try not to judge. If everyone likes not to judge according to the actual situation, especially nowCyber violence, slowly this is how it forms。Of course the game is still relatively shallow.