对话三十二Talk 32.
访客：圣者商坦亚尊者*[Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (1486–1534) 活跃在印度东部的印度教宗教领袖及社会改革者。根据《薄伽梵歌》和《薄伽梵往世书》极大兴起毗湿奴派中的虔信瑜伽(Bhakti yoga)。年幼时以博学闻名，后至加雅（印度东部比哈尔邦城市，印度教圣地，佛陀于此说法令一千拜火教徒皈依证果）为亡父祈祷时遇见他的上师自在普里，学得黑天曼陀罗，返回彭加里，从学者转变为虔信修者，成为当地毗湿奴派领袖。他最后二十四年在普里度过。他的弟子视他为毗湿奴黑天，以及黑天与其明妃拉达合一这两者的统一化身。]和罗摩克里希那尊者*[Ramakrishna (1836－1886）著名印度灵修者，被弟子称为Ramakrishna Paramahamsa。出生于婆罗门家庭，接受毗湿奴虔信派以及不二论吠檀多教授。亦同时修习伊斯兰教和基督教等其它宗教，认为一切教派都指向同一个目的。]在神前哭泣并取得成就。这难道不是可以追随的道路吗？尊者：是的。有力量(sakti)推着他们经历所有这些。对那种巨大力量的信仰，带你达到你的目标。眼泪常被看做是软弱的表现。显然这些伟大的人毫不软弱。这些显现只是携裹他们向前的涛涛巨流经过的象征。我们必须要看最后成就的终点。
A visitor: The saints Sri Chaitanya and Sri Ramakrishna wept before God and achieved success. Is that not the path to follow?
M.: Yes. There was a powerful force (sakti) drawing them on through all those experiences. Trust in that huge power to take you on to your goal. Tears are often considered a sign of weakness. These great persons were certainly not weak. These manifestations are only passing signs of the great current carrying them on. We must look to the end achieved.
访客：可以让这具肉身化为虚无而消失吗？
尊者：为什么有这个问题？你难道还不明白？你到底是不是这具身体呢？
D.: Can this physical body be made to disappear into nothingness?
M.: Why this question? Can you not find out if you are the body?
访客：我们能够像瑜伽士瓦西斯塔或众友仙人*[Viswamitra印度教中一位重要的仙人，出生刹帝利，苦行成为梵仙，梨俱吠陀第三卷的作者，曾与极裕仙人为敌，大英雄罗摩的师父]那样从视线中消失吗(antardhana)？
尊者：这些都只是和物质有关。物质是我们关注的根本对象吗？你难道不是自性？为什么要为别的事情烦恼？抓住根本，抛弃其他学来的无用理论。有些人认为在物质层面上消失对解脱来说很重要，他们错了。不需要这样。你不是身体；那么用这种或是那种方法消失又有什么要紧呢？这一类的现象不具有什么大的功德。又何分高等或低等呢？唯有成就实相才要紧。失去“我”，而不是失去“身体”才是主要的事证。真正的束缚是把身体认作自性。抛开错误的见地，去直觉地感知实相吧。只有那个才重要。
若你检验一件首饰是否是金子做的，那就把它融化了，它是用哪种方法融化的，整块还是分开化的，或者说饰品是什么形状的，这些又有什么关系？你所关心的只有它是不是金子做的。死人见不到他的身体。只有还活着的人才去思考身体是以何种方法被舍弃的。觉悟者没有什么有身无身的死亡，觉悟者平等觉察，不见任何区别。对他而言，这两个状态没有哪个更殊胜。
同样，外人也不必对解脱者的色身有丝毫关注。关心你自己的事情。觉悟自性；觉悟之后再去思考你更偏爱哪种死亡方式。错将身体认作自性，这是产生偏爱等想法的原因。你是身体吗？你昨夜沉睡时可否觉察到身体？没有！那么现在存在着的，还烦恼着你的是什么？是“我”。摆脱它，然后快乐起来吧。
D.: Can we have disappearance from sight (antardhana) like the yogis Vasishta or Viswamitra?
M.: These are only physical matters. Is that the essential object of our interest? Are you not the Self? Why trouble about other matters? Take the essence; reject other learned theories as useless. They who think that physical disappearance counts in freedom are mistaken. No such thing is needed. You are not the body; what does it matter if it disappears in one way or another? There is no great merit in such phenomena. In what does superiority or inferiority consist? Achievement of the Real alone matters. The loss of the ‘I’ is the main fact, and not the loss of the body. Identity of the Self with the body is the real bondage. Leave off the false notion and perceive intuitively the Real. That alone matters.
If you melt a gold ornament before testing it to be gold, what matters it how it is melted, whole or in parts, or of what shape the ornament was? All that you are interested in is if it is gold. The dead man sees not his body. It is the survivor that thinks about the manner in which the body is parted from. The realised have no death with or without the body, the realised man is equally aware and sees no difference. To him the one state is not superior to the other. To an outsider also the fortunes of a liberated one’s body need not be of any concern; mind your business. Realise the Self; after realisation there will be time to think of what form of death is preferable to you.
It is the false identity of the Self with the body that causes the idea of preference, etc. Are you the body? Were you aware of it when you were fast asleep last night? No! What is it that exists now and troubles you? It is ‘I’. Get rid of it and be happy.
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